LIV Golf might be cooked — for real this time. Scott and Joe break down the bombshell announcement circulating Wednesday, preview the RBC Heritage at Harbour Town with their best bets of the week, and dig into the biggest question in golf right now: with Nantz winding down and no real "young Feherty", who is the next voice of the game? Follow the show on YouTube @nostrokes Follow Scott on X @kitun Follow Joe on Instagram @venmojoe
Scott Kitun (00:02.334)
All right. Episode three of No Strokes. We haven't been canceled yet. Ben Mojo, I have to tell you before we jump into this potentially breaking news that there could be breaking news that there might be a big announcement that there isn't one. Last night I set up all of my picks. Yes, I use Robin Hood in prediction markets. I'm sorry. All my picks are RBC, which we're going to go into on this show. I cannot wait to share them with you. But we have so much to cover this week.
should have been and it was for us yesterday with with our guy Remick a recap of the Masters and was a you know in my opinion a phenomenal event it always is but like it was it was a great round it the whole thing was great unfortunately the only conversations that have been coming up is CBS and and Kisner and all this stuff so we're gonna get into that but I I want to start the show off with the live thing and we I only say this Joe to you because we started off this podcast the very first episode talking about
the drama and golf and all these really cool and fun things going on and live is sort of like kind of a dead issue. It doesn't matter. So I almost feel like I'm wasting my time even wasting time on this show talking about it. But yet it's not totally dead. And there's this announcement that's coming up. There's a bunch of tweets that are flying around golf Twitter if you haven't caught on to it yet that they might be done. And if you looked at you know Sergio Garcia always looks like a whiny
prick, but he was particularly contemporary this weekend. Bryson is out of it. Ram is out of it. All these dudes were out of it. They've had an emergency meeting. They're in Florida. Same time as RBC. And there's not really anything going on and no one kind of knows. And now they announce this big announcement coming up. What we do know is that they've been hemorrhaging money. They've lost all of their talent, you know, basically who who need to want to go to the tour. Bryson, in my opinion, you know, he's
He doesn't count because they're going to write him the biggest check, also he is now, in my opinion, you know, also a YouTube star. So he's like on a different universe. He doesn't need the tour the way the rest of them do. And Dustin Johnson's checked the fuck out. He's just going to go to majors and look, he's married to Pauline O'Gretzky. So like who's who's who's here? Who's here to blame the man? And in general, there's a couple of guys still floating around in there, but I would argue that they they're the
Venmo Joe (02:16.339)
He's doing just fine. He's doing just fine.
Scott Kitun (02:25.342)
Literally what we talk about when we say horses for courses there guys who show up to a handful of tournaments they do well at and the rest is kind of a joke and And so I ask you is live dead. What are you expecting out of this announcement? What is the point even of them continuing?
Venmo Joe (02:38.771)
Well, here's my conspiracy, Scott, because we talked about it. We talked about it yesterday, how disappointing the Masters was for the live golfers save Hatton, who was tied for third. Are they just creating noise to distract from the fact that their biggest stars fell flat on their face at the Masters? Like, hey, they're in it now. They're in the news cycle for something different. Like it's almost like they're searching for
Scott Kitun (02:42.135)
Let's have it.
Venmo Joe (03:08.705)
storylines because the first couple of years of live why it got everyone's attention was like it finally introduced free agency to golf right so you had like the buzz of you know the NBA trade deadline or what the NFL gets or what Major League Baseball gets it's like live created that in professional golf for a couple of years where it was always like hey is there a big name that's all of a sudden gonna defect and go to live that's dried up right this last offseason there was like
No marquee signings like they are clearly like rasping at straws So who knows what this emergency New York meeting is but like it's finally getting Lived to have some more buzz where like there's this excitement of hey, what's this massive? Newsdrop and it might be that they're folding up It might be that they're they're coming out with some bullshit announcement to distract from the fact that Rom and Bryson were absolute no-shows at August
Scott Kitun (03:42.422)
No, it's done. That's done.
Venmo Joe (04:08.481)
Who knows? It's not a good look. The fact that their players are in Mexico, their tee times have been released for tomorrow, but like there's this cloud hanging over the guys on whether or not the tour that...
Scott Kitun (04:21.71)
Doesn't sound like there's a tournament.
Venmo Joe (04:23.613)
Yeah, like are they gonna play? It's just it's a bad look all the way around and to your earlier point They just don't have the star power right like they've lost Kepka. They've lost read You know cam smith was this big acquisition that they made and like they signed cam smith when he came off of winning the players and out dueling rory mac
Scott Kitun (04:44.834)
Yep. And how has he done lately?
Venmo Joe (04:48.379)
He's terrible, right? He's completely lost. He's completely lost his game. Bryson has that outlet that you highlighted like he is. He's all folks. Bryson is Bryson himself is a brand. Bryson does not need live to be a brand. He is a brand on his own and then John Rom lives not worked for him, right? Because if what he's doing on.
Scott Kitun (04:49.782)
He's not even the same player anymore.
Scott Kitun (05:12.236)
No. And he said as much and then he kind of walks it back because he feels bad or whatever and he's an honorable dude.
Venmo Joe (05:15.603)
Yeah, we got it because he's got to, he's under contract there. So he has to walk it out. But like, he's given us some crumbs to tell that he's not happy. And clearly the structure that they've got on live where they're playing these resort courses with not, not nearly the same level of pressure that you see on the PGA tour day in and day out. that's not even a top, that's not even a top 20 course in Illinois. And the fact that that was like their
Scott Kitun (05:36.62)
I don't know man, Bowling Brook Golf Club here in Chicago is gangster.
Scott Kitun (05:44.91)
You obviously have not gone on golf now and tried to poke a tee time for $375. It's insane.
Venmo Joe (05:51.102)
That's crazy. like the reps that he's getting, the reps that Ram is getting on Lib are not translating to the four biggest tournaments of the calendar year. And that's got to be frustrating for him. So I'm excited to see what comes out of that. And it'll be exciting to see if they do fold up what happens to those guys that, you know, still have a lot of golf to play because that return.
Scott Kitun (06:14.412)
Hey, just walk back. I think this thing is done. I'm going to pull this out of the one of our very first golf segments you did on my show a year ago, two years ago, whatever it is now. And I think I called this truly. If live, the idea was there. The idea was good. You see other leagues trying to compete when you see the growth that golf has had. There's clearly room for multiple things. TGL, while it is PGA Tour related, it is showing
I'm still gonna, I'm gonna keep pushing TGL until people literally tell me I can't do it anymore. It just shows that there's interest. I do too. It takes, it's like that. It's like Thursday night football used to be. It gives you that extra day that you're like, shit, didn't know I needed that. Now I do, now I can't live without it. Liv had an opportunity. You know where they screwed up? Liv should have taken on the senior tour. Liv should have gone and gotten every single guy who's one or two years away from qualifying for the senior tour.
Venmo Joe (06:50.482)
I think it's a great product. I think TGL is a great product.
Scott Kitun (07:13.25)
The Phil Mickelson's and all those guys and said, I want you. I want you, I want you, I want you. We're gonna create a fun product because the problem, and obviously Tiger shows up and if he's whatever, you know, whatever. If he ends up playing in the senior tour, it will get attention because it's Tiger and you wanna see him play and he maybe gets the right to cart or whatever. But senior tour to me just looks like old, it's like the dads when we go to the country club. It's like, God damn, I remember when he used to be a man and now it's like this crippled old fucker who can't even get around.
That to me is a senior, George, it's not exciting. I'm not turning it on. I would though, if they were like, we're going to take, you know, Bernhard Langer, we're going to put him in a fun course where he still can use his Bernhard Langer brain and skills and hands and stuff and put him against, you know, young, weird, just make something fun out of it. That was their opportunity. And instead they tried to poach the best. They whitewashed PGA. They bought all these guys and immediately.
It was like, they're on streaming on YouTube, but then they're on WGN TV. And then it's like, what the fuck? And there's no one there. like the best thing that has happened to Liv is Anthony Kim. That's the best thing and also great for him. But it is the best thing that has happened. And so when that thing folds, which in my opinion, you're going to do now.
Venmo Joe (08:17.321)
Good.
Venmo Joe (08:25.949)
Yeah, but you, but you still get that.
You think about Anthony Kim and you're absolutely right. like that, they, caught lightning in a bottle there, right? Cause at that was at Adelaide, right? That that's like their famous, that's like one of the tournaments that they've actually gained some traction on. they had him dueling against their two superstars, Ram and Bryson. The problem is one, it happened overnight when everyone was sleeping. And like, if you get that recipe where like, you know, if they were, if they were in
lab and they're like, Hey, what, pieces do we need in order to create like a really compelling storyline? They got it. But that momentum didn't translate to anything like to, the rest of their schedule. the other issue they've had is they went into teams, the teams thing never took off, right? Like teams work when there's legacy history,
Scott Kitun (09:18.936)
Golf's a team sport in college. doesn't really ride her cup once in a while. It doesn't work every day.
Venmo Joe (09:23.487)
It didn't, it didn't take off. And then they really leaned into the consumers thinking that we really care about like brand deals that they were getting. Right. Cause they, they actually published like a TV series or a YouTube series. was like, you know, trying to get behind the scenes on what's going on in live golf. And they focused a ton on, well, Hey, John, Ron has got this partnership now with Callaway and Bryson's got this partnership with Reebok. I don't care about that. I care about.
like the drama on the golf course and like what the storylines are on the actual tour. I don't care if Rom or Brayson is getting more rich because they've now gotten a partnership and Liv I think was leveraging that to be like, hey, if these big companies are buying into Liv, like this makes it seem like we're reputable like the model's working. The model didn't work. It didn't.
Scott Kitun (10:18.262)
No, it didn't work. it's it is funny. All the people who said it. And again, I'm not getting political. All the people who said it's a whitewash and this is all it really is. It actually clearly wasn't because they have really tried to like make a go of it. And the fact that it's important enough that they're firing and pushing Greg Norman out and they're not just like, hey, screw it. We're just going to end this. Turn the lights off because they have the money. If they they don't give a shit about any of the money that's been lost in this, they really are trying to build something. Yeah. Yeah, but it's I mean, it's.
Venmo Joe (10:41.875)
Which is crazy because they've lost billions of dollars and it's crazy.
Scott Kitun (10:47.032)
They're losing more money right now with the straight, the straight that shut down in oil than they are with live golf. It doesn't matter. So here's just in my opinion, you know, wrap a bow on it. I don't know what the announce is going to be. It may not be a fold. It may be some sort of like, you know, warm embrace crash where they're just sort of like, Hey, we're going to absorb this. And then we've worked it out because, you know, even the PGA while they would love to see live crash and burn, they don't really want the guys from live to be unmarketable. They don't want it to end up where it comes out like
These guys are just like fuck the tour and what like they don't want that. So however it works, it's going to be a like, you know, good try. We welcome competition. We're all better for it. Blah, blah, blah, blah. All the players are going to go right back on tour. They're going to revest. They're going to have to revest into our and you know, pay some sort of compensation for what they've done. Probably my guess is they're going to have to play a bunch of extended tournaments. The PGA Tour wants them to play, but everyone's saying no to
Venmo Joe (11:42.322)
It's done.
It's the Kepka model, But like, so the PGA Tour is going to be able to cherry pick the guys that they want, but the guys that they want are going to have to sign up to the terms that the PGA Tour dictates like Brooks did. But I think that asking price is now going to go up because they, had that opportunity to return to the tour in February when Brooks did, they didn't. And PGA Tour is going to have all the leverage on who they want to put back on the tour if Liv does fold.
Scott Kitun (12:02.125)
Wow.
Scott Kitun (12:14.51)
Well, that's just it though, right? Because it's Bryson and Rahm and Smith and, you know, that's it really. Hatton, guess.
Venmo Joe (12:14.719)
guys.
Venmo Joe (12:20.803)
I Smith, maybe like the two guys that I would be concerned about if I were on live were our Hatten and Nieman, right? Because Hatten and Nieman still had really good golf to play, but they don't have the accolades that Ron Bryson and Cam Smith have, right? Where they've won majors, they've won a player's championship. like what happens to Hatten and Nieman where they're like, Hey, we jumped ship. thought Liv was going to be this, this monster success. And now
Scott Kitun (12:29.688)
Yeah, Joaquin Neiman is a real guy.
Venmo Joe (12:50.667)
Do they have a path back to the tour if it folds? That'll be interesting. Well, they did, but they didn't, but they didn't based on the parameters that the tour set when Kevka jumped ship. Based on that, it was like the criteria was, yeah, but the criteria then was if you're a major champion over the last four years or if you've won a player's championship, that's not Neiman or Hatton. That's all I'm saying.
Scott Kitun (12:52.61)
Yeah. I mean, I think that they do. think it's like in anything else.
Scott Kitun (13:03.958)
Yeah, but there's a difference when one of the ships sinks.
Scott Kitun (13:17.326)
Yeah, no, it's a good point. We will see. What I can tell you is that there's a ton of drama in golf, which means we're talking about it every single day weekly. Golf Twitter has never been more fun. I think even golf, golf WRX has a new site. That's how fun this is. There's a forum where we're like in the 90s, early 2000s again. I'm loving it. And that's what I mentioned at the top of the show. Kisner like this is never happened in golf really where we have, you know, nonstop.
Venmo Joe (13:35.603)
Yep.
Scott Kitun (13:43.01)
conversation going on that is not just you know it's like on ESPN not that ESPN matters anymore but the fact that golf is on the home page is insane to me because it's been so long. Kisner just keep going down the list here. Kisner goes to scorched earth on CBS he tells this whole story. Golf Twitter is now you know I don't know it's probably fake but there there there's a conspiracy theory now that a bunch of the camera guys tried to sell Masters passes and they got shit can before the Masters and so that's why they were shorthanded.
And that's why everyone's praising the crew. They did so good, so good, but like it didn't make any sense. We talked about it, I think long enough on our recap. But like what you really are getting at is the 18th hole disaster shot by shot. It doesn't make sense. Young second shot Roy, you you talk about Nance, this to me is just sums it up. Nance goes on the Pat McAfee show, right? And he, which is insane on its own, right? Like that is its own story. And he basically says it's live television. We all make mistakes. I'm really proud of the crew.
And he has not asked about Kisner's comments specifically and he just sort of ignored it. And it's like, we're going to let crazy Kisner, you know, say his piece and go, even though he's right. Nance has to toe the line. That's the classy thing that he would always do. But there's no golf media to take the anchor on this. Like, yes, you know, Kisner went on the Barstool show foreplay. Like that's where it happened. But there's no like face of golf to come out and make a comment. Like we have
the old guard of Nance and those guys who just this is not their style. Nick Faldo to me, I enjoy him on the Masters. I pretty much find him deplorable elsewhere with the sideburns and all. And I love Faldo, don't get me wrong, like he's a golfer, but he just, he doesn't, he belongs on like the Fox NFL set at this point. Like he doesn't, he's Terry Bradshaw. He doesn't do anything for me. And there's like young up and comers that just, fuck his name by the Johnson Wagner. I don't even know who that guy is.
Venmo Joe (15:33.308)
Hahaha
Scott Kitun (15:40.94)
I don't watch a shit ton of golf. I mean, I do, but I don't. And to me, I'm bringing this up because we are hitting, you know, speaking of the PGA and why they're going to let these guys to live back on and not going to screw it up. This is a generational moment for the game of golf. We have never had more young people into the game and into the game in many ways. The digital creator, like we had Remick on just yesterday.
the TGL stuff, the YGL, which is a thing that the Horvath guys and Wesley brothers are doing. Just in general, the golf sim club, by the way, I locked number two in our golf league this year. I'm pretty proud of that. We won by six strokes on the last round to lock that shit in. So go me and Matt Staff, my plan partner.
Venmo Joe (16:26.943)
I thought you might be first since I think you live there, don't you?
Scott Kitun (16:31.768)
We got cooked. The first team, first team is way better than me and I'm, I'm, have no shame in admitting I played for second and I'm proud to do so. But the point is we had like 45 guys in this tournament and that's just a random ass weekly league. And it's, it's everywhere. There are these things, you're in one too. These things are everywhere. So like the interest has never been higher. We have companies like Malbon, Alma Mater. We were supposed to have the Alma Mater CEO Eric on the show in the next couple of weeks to talk about this, you know, even more.
Venmo Joe (16:39.752)
You
Scott Kitun (17:01.506)
There's a style to the game. One of the things with Anthony Kim, other than his journey, that's so cool is the dude always had swagger and style. But when he played in 08, he couldn't do the shit he does now. He couldn't walk the way he does and dress the way he does, like that. It's cool now. And I feel like the thing that's missing is the media. Like, what, who is the voice of our generation?
Nance and those guys with a voice of Tiger, they're the voice of you and I's generation as kids growing up, but they're not the voice of the new generation of golfer. We have had, we have more talented young stallions coming up, whether they're on liver PGA or even howl who's like fucking 15 years old. There are more studs coming up than ever before Tiger, you know, whatever the hell happened is whatever.
He's still going to be around. He's not, you know, he's not that old. He's still going to be kind of floating around TGL. You're going to get the old, you know, he's the Charles Barkley of the crew rolling around, still telling stories like Rory's 36 or whatever. Like he's got years. We have got a decade of unbelievable dominant golf and we've got no voice to cover it. We've got a confusing angle where it's like the young ones want to shit on the old guard CBS like myself. And I'm asking you this, Joe, who is the up and coming person?
And if we learned anything from the Pat McAfee and the TB, TB, TBPN and a handful of these other groups is podcaster. Hopefully it's us because our show is great is podcaster to broadcaster the new ramp because it feels to me that in non-golf non-sports, the podcaster has replaced the late night host. And I'm wondering if one of the things that we need to like do in golf is to get more
Guys like us, like Remick, guys like the Horvat guys, and I know that being a media personality is not the same thing as being a digital golf creator. They're different. This is a different skill set that we possess. But I think that we've got to find a common place where the media talent around golf is like legit and it's embraced. The PGA needs to embrace the young us type of people to come on these shows and to be on it.
Scott Kitun (19:22.112)
not chase the Kelsey and and the, you know, Tavern Smart and all that. That's bullshit. They need to get the real dudes. And I feel like we have a very, very, very important moment. And right now today, yesterday and Sunday, we did not have Jim Nance on his game. We did not have David Faraday. He's too old and he's, you know, he's on liver, whatever. Faxon and Nesinger or whatever. I don't care. Faldo. He's Terry Bradshaw. What's the next CBS? What is the next act? Cause we need it and we need it now.
Venmo Joe (19:27.551)
you
Scott Kitun (19:53.324)
Rant over.
Venmo Joe (19:53.376)
Yeah, I think it's a good rant. mean, like, I know we talked.
dance going on McAfee like listen McAfee's a generational talent and he was able to you know he went from you know the funny punter on the Colts to Barstool and people thought he was crazy when he retired earlier from the NFL and walked away for millions to go to Barstool and Barstool was a great launching pad for him and now he's just a mega star but he's not he's not specific to golf and he's not going to be the voice of golf like he'll he'll chime in when
it's a big tournament, like, you know, he's an NFL and he's a college football guy. It's a good question. mean, like I personally like Trevor Immelman. I know he's older, but like he's been sitting in that lead tower with Nance and he's the lead analyst. Like I think naturally he could have an opportunity to move over to the lead anchor.
Scott Kitun (20:48.94)
He's no iron eagle though. We need an iron eagle. We need a guy who is like a golfer's golfer. I need a breen, a bang, bang. I need somebody to come in who's like, has control.
Venmo Joe (20:59.335)
Well, the little bit of excitement. He's kind of he's a little reserved, right? I do like his voice, though, because if you're looking to nap during during a tour event, man, his voice puts you right to sleep. But probably not what you're looking for from an excitement.
Scott Kitun (21:13.974)
I was gonna say, I don't think that's one of the attributes that we need for this. just, I'm not saying that he doesn't work here.
Venmo Joe (21:18.587)
I, you know, a guy, know, as a guy I like a lot that's younger is Smiley Kaufman, right? Like he has really become like a budding star.
Scott Kitun (21:26.402)
Second Smiley Kaufman drop in three shows. Way to go, Smiley.
Venmo Joe (21:30.634)
Smiley dude, Smiley's got a, you he didn't do much on the PGA tour, but him getting in the last group when Jordan Spieth, you know, torpedoed himself from being a back-to-back master champion. I don't know. It lives on for me. I remember that day, but he is, he's been the on course guy, but he's younger, right? He's got the connection to Spieth, Ricky, kind of that younger generation. He's been within the ropes, but he hasn't had a ton of success.
Scott Kitun (21:44.215)
No, I like it.
Venmo Joe (22:00.613)
I think he could bring a level of excitement. Colt Nost is entertaining. As you said on Johnson,
Scott Kitun (22:06.732)
He's extraordinarily irritating. I don't think you're underplaying that. I like literally turn the shit off when I see him.
Venmo Joe (22:12.927)
Why are you hating on Colt,
Scott Kitun (22:15.278)
I just don't like it. I don't like the shtick. It's obvious.
Venmo Joe (22:18.559)
And then Johnson Wagner, they're trying to force that down us, right? Because his gimmick was recreating the shot, like the famous shots of the tournament that they just covered. And he's the guy that's played on the PGA Tour and yet can hit some really bad shots, so he relates to us. But yeah, think there's a void right now.
Scott Kitun (22:37.634)
Yeah. I don't have a by the way, I don't have a problem with Johnson Wagner in that regard, right? Like every good show needs one of that. Like so he's on but don't try to push him to the center for me. Like that's the part. And I love Smiley Kaufman because that's basically what like my version of Nota Begay. He's our he's our Nota Begay. Right. Like that's basically what we have. And he's he's great. So OK, you got your we got we got our Nota Begay. We got our player on the course guy.
Venmo Joe (22:57.885)
Yeah.
Scott Kitun (23:06.252)
which is like basically Dottie Pepper. We've got, you know, the person who's in the booth who's calm and he's doing play by play and he's not missing. He's like, we've got a short butt, three feet. It's going to break lift. Like you've got that guy. Now I need the person who's like, I play golf. I get fucked up with these guys. I travel with them. I got stories for days. Can't tell you names. Was a good golfer, not a great golfer. And I'm on this and I'm a media star. I'm obsessive. I was a, I was a videotape guy. You know what I mean? Like that, that guy.
who played with one of these studs in college, tried really hard to make it on tour, did Q school, did all that, started a fucking newsletter or something. And next thing you know, they're on fried egg talking about the course and somebody puts them on mainstream TV and they say something crazy and voila, you've got a star. And maybe that's us. bottom line is we need that. We need it. The golf world needs it because it's very...
Venmo Joe (23:54.814)
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, maybe that sucks. Yeah, I think they do. I don't know who that I don't know who that wild card guy is at this point, right? Maybe it's.
It's the calm. don't think any of the YouTubers, right, that have had a ton of success. I don't think they lend themselves to that. I mean, from an entertaining standpoint, that's Robbie Berger, right? But he doesn't have the he doesn't have the golf chops. He's more just got the entertainment value. Another guy I really like just from the Masters. I don't know if you know him, Shane Bacon. That guy, I think he's very, very entertaining. He was unbelievably good on. I think I was when I was on the
Scott Kitun (24:29.226)
yeah.
Venmo Joe (24:36.097)
He was like the lead anchor for the feature groups and he was awesome. I don't know if he's got the entertainment value, younger guy, early 40s that is obsessed with the game and has clearly got some good media chops.
Scott Kitun (24:51.778)
that's the key. And I think one of the biggest things and we'll put a bow on this too. The biggest thing is the PGA has got to embrace it. I know the Masters is different because it really isn't, know, like Remick yesterday said it well, like it's a hoity toity event. It needs to stay that way. So I'm not pushing it for the Masters. But in general, the PGA has to embrace that there is this universe of podcasts, which is a ton of talent. There are golf creators. I don't think that what you do on a YouTube video necessarily translates to doing play by play and being exciting. You have to have
Venmo Joe (25:16.989)
No.
Scott Kitun (25:18.838)
a certain skill set in the media sense, but you also have to have timing for the moment and like be able to do it. And there's every major sport has that person you immediately think of. And the key in my mind, baseball is a great example of this. One of the reasons that things start to kind of go away for a generation for a while is it doesn't have a narrator. We don't have a narrator and we're going to be losing, know, Vin was our narrator. We were losing those guys.
And the new generation plays differently. So we need a new narrator, but that narrator has got to sound more like what that generation sounds like or it's going to be lost. And I don't want to see this opportunity lost. So enough of listeners having to hear me bitch about media stuff and golf. It's obviously a passion. Let's switch over to why we're here, which is
Venmo Joe (26:02.055)
I feel like that was your job interview to become the voice of golf for the next generation. I like it, yeah.
Scott Kitun (26:06.99)
Hire me. Hire me. I'm here. I'm ready. Take me up. All right. We're going to switch over to RBC. Do a little handicap action here. We don't need a local insider. You are a local insider. You played the course. So why don't we start there? Why don't we talk about the course? What you remember if you I don't know if you remember anything. That's kind of the way we play. But let let me know what you think. What you remember about the course. I want to talk about the field. I've made some picks. I've got the kind of
Venmo Joe (26:26.259)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Scott Kitun (26:37.186)
What do want to call it? got the who probably will win. Who is a great probably should win and then who I'm rooting for and then we'll take it from there.
Venmo Joe (26:40.319)
You got the experience, yeah.
Venmo Joe (26:45.117)
Yeah, so the core, mean, it's a resort course. It's shorter than normal PGA tour courses. Like I think it's under 7,200 yards. First 15 holes, like really, really tight fairways, like true resort course where you've got like condominiums to the left or to your right, trees. It's a challenging driving course, at least for like a normal guy like me, because you can't really spray it. But I think the
pros are going to eat it up. And it's much more, like we talked about Augusta, it's much more approach kind of around the green game than driving game. Just due to the short distance, they're probably laying up on some holes and looking more about where they want to be from a location standpoint versus blasting a drive 300 plus yards. The thing I do remember about that course though, holes 16 through 18, like one of the better finishing stretches that we see on the PGA2.
were all year because you go from these really tight holes to like all of a sudden 16 it opens up you've got a strategically placed tree like in the middle of the fairway that I remember our caddy told me and my brother-in-law because he had seen me hit for 15 holes he's like hey don't even worry about that tree that's out there and you know I proceed to hit my best drive of the day and I'm blocked from the tree so I just gave gave my caddy shit for the last three holes I'm like
Oh, I didn't have to worry about that tree, but 16 is a great par four 17 is a great par three with the wind you've got the water right there Like anywhere from 190 to 200 yards Really small green You know there's trouble with the water. There's trouble with sand That's a really tough par three and then 18 is an iconic finishing hole You've got the water on the left. You've got out of bounds and trees on the right, but it's the wide
fairway that they're gonna see all day. It's 90 yards wide. So if you hit a good drive, you've got a chance to make that a scoreable hole, but like everything on Hardware Town with Pete Dye, very small green. So it's a small target to hit into, but you've got that iconic lighthouse that's behind 18. And we've seen some really good finishes there over the last couple of years. We've seen a couple of playoffs happen here and we've had some pretty like...
Scott Kitun (29:10.702)
Three out of the last four. Three out of the last four is a playoff and.
Venmo Joe (29:12.393)
pretty big superstars winning here too, right? You've had Speed, you've had Thomas, Fitzpatrick, Scheffler, it's kind of turned into, because it's a signature event, you still get the big names coming, even though it's the week after the Masters. So you would think that there was a Masters hangover, but this tournament just seems to always deliver. And then you get that really ugly plaid jacket to wear once you win it.
Scott Kitun (29:18.936)
Shuffler.
Scott Kitun (29:40.812)
Right. Well, this is the this is the one I think that the guys who came up really, really close in the Masters but didn't blow it. They just didn't win it. This is where they come and like shake that shit off. Have a good time. You keep talking about how small the greens are. They're the smallest greens on the PGA Tour. So like massive massive. But again, coming off of Augusta, these guys probably are fairly primed for it. The driving situation other than the dog legs in the water. I don't know what the weather is supposed to be. If it's windy or not, if it's super windy, it could be a problem. But
Venmo Joe (29:54.195)
Yep.
Scott Kitun (30:10.51)
They don't have a single par four over 480 yards. All the par threes are long. Doesn't really matter for most of these guys. They couldn't even make par on 150 yards at the master. So what's 190 and three par fives are reachable for pretty much everyone in the field. So it is going to be like we talked about the masters. It's an approach shot tournament. These guys got to, got to make drives in good positions for approach, not about the distance. If you're a decent putter and you can chip well and handy yourself on a small green.
Venmo Joe (30:13.598)
Yeah.
Venmo Joe (30:20.735)
You
Scott Kitun (30:39.874)
That's your advantage. So like, hey, let's take a little look here. Who won the last four? You said it. Thomas, Scheffler, Fitzpatrick, Spieth. What are they known for? Handling around the green, making shots where they need to make them. Some of them are known for blowing up holes too, but that's neither here nor there. Even if you go way back, not that way back, but 21 and 20. mean, it's Stuart Sink and Webb Simpson. You're still looking at guys who are known specifically for that kind of play. So to me, when I'm looking at how I'm handicapping and looking at picks in particular,
True strokes gained from approach has to be number one, probably number one, number two and three. True strokes, tee to green, probably number two if you wanted to put it in there. think driving accuracy matters, but only so much as like you're not spraying the shit everywhere. as long as you're, you know, within an approach, even if I would say if you're not in the fairway a lot, that might be a problem. The distance isn't the issue, but if you're hitting into a tiny tight green out of the rough. Yeah.
Venmo Joe (31:32.756)
Well, you're going to have, you're going to, you're going to have blockage and you're, probably not going to be able to hit the small green. So you're going to be looking for shots gained around the green, right? Who are the guys that, know, if they have an error in approach, who can get it up and down for, for par and then, you know, take advantage of the birdie holes when they can. So you're just trying to avoid, you know, those doubles or bogeys or doubles when you get out of position and you're not.
Scott Kitun (32:00.278)
Right, 100%. Well, I'll tell you this. This is gonna be like week, tournament five in a row where the tailor-made QI4 3-wood is gonna be in the bag of the winner. Because I just think that it's gonna be a matter of either you're driving your brains out and you're just in perfect opportunity to win, or you've made the smart decision to put the ball where you need it. And as long as you can hit in on the fairway, onto the green from there, I think you will do well.
One mistake that we talked about very clearly yesterday that we are not going to make today and it applies to this course the same as it does the Masters, not quite as important, but it does work the same way as course history. This is another one where if you've not made the cuts on a regular, almost every one of these winners before winning had a top 20 and a top 10 consecutive years before winning. Almost none, I think, is one of the last eight years as someone who came in here and won, having never really performed well here or was not notable. So this is a course that you've played before.
that you have done well on before. Your game is, you you're not coming off of a shit show at the Masters to play in this. So I think the field is very open. If you wanna just make a joke and call it, Scottie Schaeffler probably wins this tournament. Like, he took second, he was surging, he was playing really well, he's won here before, he's comfortable. Like, that's not my pick. But if you look at everything that we just said, that's basically Scottie Schaeffler coming into this week.
I don't know.
Venmo Joe (33:25.135)
And he, less so this year, but like in his like run of terror over the last couple of years, what he's proven that like once he's conquered a golf course and he's won at a golf course, he's likely to win there again, right? Because like he, he, knows it. He's, clearly suits his game. He's comfortable with it. I like your model top target though, if you want to jump into that, I like who you highlight.
Scott Kitun (33:41.344)
Yeah, right.
Scott Kitun (33:54.466)
for which one are we talking for top target?
Venmo Joe (33:57.342)
your head league call out.
Scott Kitun (33:59.502)
Oh yeah, okay, sorry, I'm looking at my screen here like I got a couple of them. I bet on everybody. Yeah, I think that Russell Henley is like the very clear, if not Scotty Scheffler, it's a good, know, he's getting good odds, I think, plus 1600 to 1800, depending on where you're playing. He did very well at the Masters. He has all of the, you know, his shots gained approach plus two per round 50. I mean, he just, in general, he matches up with the five things we just listed a second ago.
Plus he's coming off of like basically a near, know, he doesn't win tournaments. That's my only knock. Like that's the one thing is like he's not a tournament winner generally. Yeah, like that's not like he's a guy that if you showed up in the top five or top 10, which I actually think he has pretty much done in the last seven, seven tournaments. I feel like he will be there and you wouldn't be surprised by it. That would be my, that would actually be my pick for money would be Russell Henley.
Venmo Joe (34:36.753)
He doesn't win enough, for sure, for his game. does not win
Scott Kitun (34:56.652)
And the only knock is that, you I think Scottie Schaeffler could come out here and just kick everyone's ass and go home and play with his kids. But if not Schaeffler, my minus Schaeffler pick of the week will absolutely be Russell Henley. It was my one and done pick this week, Russell Henley.
Venmo Joe (35:12.989)
That's a good pick, right? If you look at like total strokes gained at Harbertown over the last 10 years, two of those top 10 players are Scheffler and Henley, right? So clearly like they're...
Their shots gained there, the data's there. I mean, you've also got Cantlay, which I just refuse to bet on him to win a golf tournament. Like he is just, he's so unenjoyable to have a ticket on. he's one of the most frustrating golfers. I'd stay away from him. A long shot that I like that you highlighted as well, Daniel Berger, who's going under the radar.
Scott Kitun (35:51.5)
Yes. Yes.
Venmo Joe (35:52.318)
He is top 10 players in course history as it relates to strokes gained at Harvard Town over the last 10 tournaments held there. He played good enough to win at Arnold Palmer, right? Like he almost went wire wire. He just got caught by, know, Occhet just playing out of his mind that Sunday, but he didn't give that golf tournament away. was almost like Occhet just won it. And he missed the cut at the Masters, I believe.
Scott Kitun (36:16.493)
No.
Venmo Joe (36:22.241)
right Berger? So I kind of look, I like when guys weren't in that pressure of the Masters weekend where like they got the reps at Augusta, but you know, they took the weekend off to hone in on whatever went wrong on Thursday and Friday, coming a little bit fresher to Harbor Town. So I think Berger at, you know, anywhere from 90 to 100 to one, that's worth looking at.
Scott Kitun (36:22.85)
Yup, yup, yup.
Scott Kitun (36:49.242)
I want to double down on that real quick and add Jordan Spieth to the mix. I want Spieth to play. Well, he's not the same guy. I'm good with it. There are folks calling the Spieth town this week in hopes of getting him to get excited. He did finish T12 at the Masters. His game is generally pretty good. in shots getting an approach. This is the part that I'm, and I'll probably be wrong, right? Like this is where I'm going to give you receipts. The thing that I would change about what we did with the Masters recap.
Venmo Joe (37:02.356)
Yeah.
Scott Kitun (37:18.987)
or handicap in the first place was we got a little bit too hard on the tech and everything has to be like, if you take, how do I find first place in all five categories I care about and that's the winner. And to me, there's.
Venmo Joe (37:29.907)
Well, and if that was the thing, Scott, if all you had to do was take like cherry pick data on shots gained, approach and around the green, like you'd pick a winner every week, right? The data would be much.
Scott Kitun (37:42.104)
Well, I mean, obviously there's more, there's more that goes into that than just that. But there's this part where it's the eyeball test. And I'll sound like the old man and yelling at the, yelling out the door. There is something to be said for like what your fricking eyes tell you. And Jordan Spieth looks like someone he's talking like someone who's finally a little comfortable in his skin. He's won here before checks the box of like, Hey, plays well where he wins this course like masters takes the players who play well where they've won.
He has all of the attributes that work. If his putter is a disaster, he's not gonna win. He'll probably place in the top 10, but he's not gonna win. If he's making a handful of putts, he doesn't even have to putt out of his mind. He's so good for reproach, he doesn't have to putt out of his mind, because his putts are 10 feet. That's the difference. So, so long as he doesn't, like, three putter have the yips, he's in it. Same thing with Berger. Berger checks all the boxes-ish. He has some driver accuracy things where he's 27 or 30 on tour.
He's good, not great. He's not elite. He's really good. His approach, very, very good over the last three months. Historically, is he hot or is he just a better player? I don't know. He fits all the things where if he is on his game, he possesses the tools in the bag to win this no question, doesn't matter who he plays against. If one or two of those tools is not playing, he will not win. Unlike Spieth, I don't think he even plays as well. So when I'm going through this list,
I'm looking at guys who I think if everything they have is playing pretty well, they can win it. If they're missing something they can place. And the guys who are missing one thing they can't even place really, I'm kind of cutting them out of my bets. They're long shot to me because it's very difficult to have all your shit working at the same time. But that is how you win tournaments.
Venmo Joe (39:26.047)
What the fuck is this?
Venmo Joe (39:30.676)
Well, what we said about what has me very bullish on speed.
other than it's Spieth town and he's won here. What he said after Augusta, which we talked about, earlier this week, said it's the best he's ever hit it at Augusta. This is coming from a guy that has won Augusta. He's finished in the top five before like that guy telling me, telling us he's hitting it better than he was when he won. All you're looking for is a hot week with the putter at that point in time.
And that's why it's gambling, right? Because you never really know when a tour player is going to have that hot week with the putter. But if you know he's got all of the other attributes and you're just taking on a flyer to say, hey, maybe this is the week that the greens fit his eyes, right? He's reading it and rolling it and holding it. Great bet.
Scott Kitun (40:26.232)
Who, yeah, who's your surprise? Because I don't think those guys are really surprises. Who is your, yeah. Let's go.
Venmo Joe (40:31.335)
I got a massive surprise, massive one. He's got never won on tour, but he's one of my favorite tour players, one of the best putters in the world, Denny McCarthy. So smaller, shorter course, which we've already talked about.
Scott Kitun (40:45.11)
yeah.
Scott Kitun (40:49.282)
fine. Good for him.
Venmo Joe (40:50.943)
Right. Great for him. Great at approach. One of the best putters in the world. think Sam Burns has that title right now, but like Sam Burns was a little iffy with the flat stick over the weekend at Augusta. Denny McCarthy is going off. I got him yesterday on FanDuel at 225 to one. I checked before we jumped on to our podcast. It's at 175 to one now on FanDuel. Probably similar odds on DraftKings, maybe 165, 150, but like
to get one of the best players in the world, or best putters in the world on a shorter tour course where shots gained around the green is gonna be the key metric here. Danny McCarthy is 100 % worth taking a flyer on. He's had some good showings earlier this year, like top 10 at Houston, which is a course that he doesn't usually play all that well at, which when a player...
plays well at a course that historically he hasn't done well with, that tells me he's trending up, right? So I think that there's enough metrics there. He didn't play at Augusta, so he's got some, you know, he's got a little bit of break there. I love taking a flyer on Denny. Obviously, if he was the favorite, he wouldn't be 225 to one, but if you're looking to, you know, put some beer money on someone, I'd put it on Denny and, you know, maybe we're cashing a couple thousand bucks on Sunday with him.
Scott Kitun (42:14.022)
If we do that, we're starting our wedge fund. I'm excited about it. Gonna have a little wedge fund. All right, so that's your, who is your official pick of the week then? We're gonna lock it in one and done. You did Justin Rose last week. My job here is to try to convince you to pick somebody that I like, but you pick. You're our master picker.
Venmo Joe (42:19.496)
Agreed.
Venmo Joe (42:33.363)
My, my one, yeah, so Danny McCarthy is not my, not my one and done. I'm going to do, I think you've convinced me on Jordan speed. And then once you got me talking about him with the comment that he made about how well he hit it around Augusta. I love him as a one and done this week.
Scott Kitun (42:50.382)
Jordan Spieth, lock it in. Joe, I'm excited to watch this. I know that there's a select few golfers who are so golf sicko that they watch everything and this is going to be like, I'm as excited about waking up tomorrow and turning on this as I have really any other tournament. And you know, the cool thing is that now we have a pod for it.
Venmo Joe (42:58.867)
Yeah, they'll be us now.
Venmo Joe (43:06.983)
Well, it's hipster, hipster than that.
tips for the dads out there, you're probably not going to get away with just like parking in front of the TV on the couch all day Saturday or Sunday. But I love just having some money on a couple of guys. And then you've got the PGA Tour app. So like when you're running around with your kids at, you know, all different activities that they've got on Saturday and Sunday, you're just hopping on that app and you're tracking them, right? Like you've got some juice, even though you're not watching it live, like you're tracking how they're trending. You're getting to see like, all right, they're in the
fairway, they're 120 yards out, this is a birdie opportunity, like I still get the juice for not even watching if I'm just track, if I'm just actually shot tracking the guys that I've got money on. So a little bit of tip where you can still, you can still follow the golf sweat without having to be in front of a TV for five hours.
Scott Kitun (43:59.03)
It's very responsible of you as a dad and a husband. I'm going to talk to the other golf sickos on this that are fucking degenerates like me who just cannot. I can't read man. That's not my game. I watch and listen. I'm a podcaster. listen. Here's a tip. If you pay for premium YouTube whether it's YouTube TV 4K or YouTube YouTube premium you can actually go to it and then slide it off your screen and hit the power and not have the screen playing and listen to it.
Venmo Joe (44:10.335)
you
Scott Kitun (44:29.334)
I don't believe that's accessible for everybody.
Venmo Joe (44:30.559)
That's a genius move. I like that a lot.
Scott Kitun (44:33.388)
So I go on YouTube TV, I will find Harvard Town Tournament, RBC Heritage. I'll hit play. I'll put this little puppy in. This one's always free. That's mom and dad. That's Scott. I put the shit in. Yeah, I'm going to go. We have soccer in the morning, Saturday. Vivi's in softball, so she's got a parade. So we're going do that. I'm going be listening. I got to go grocery shopping because I'm a good husband and I want to get some of that good stuff on Sunday.
Venmo Joe (44:46.313)
That's not right.
Scott Kitun (45:02.238)
And you know, I have this on the whole time and I think that you can listen to it and you just learn. You can do both and gamble. It's fun.
Venmo Joe (45:09.267)
I like that. I'm going to adopt that one too.
Scott Kitun (45:13.132)
They need this to become skin colored though, so maybe I'll just tell Jen that I'm hard of hearing, I gotta get a hearing aid and I'll just snip the tip of this thing off. Circumcise my AirPods so I can listen to golf.
Venmo Joe (45:16.318)
Yeah.
Venmo Joe (45:24.159)
Hey, anything for the love of the game and the love of golf and the love of golf.
Scott Kitun (45:29.974)
man. I love it. Joe, thank you so much for taking the time. Everyone listening, thank you. We'd appreciate you going to YouTube and find us at No Strokes on YouTube. Give it a like, give it a subscription. A little follow, follow us on all the social medias. I'm at Katune. You can find at Venmo Joe. You can find at No Strokes Pod everywhere. It's been a blast. It's only episode three and there's, my God, there's so much to come. This season's gonna rock. Thank you, Joe.
Venmo Joe (45:54.121)
cooking. See you Scotty.